Having cleared the table from the last of the Samurai Azukizaka battles (yes, I am now behind two battle reports!), time to head off in a different direction with a different period. After considering a few options, a request for a return to the Great Italians Wars was suggested. Sounded good to me. The last time the collection saw action was back in April and May of this year with a string of five, Battle of Fornovo games with an assortment of player groups.
What to bring to the table this time?
Since I used Verginella's scenario book as a starting point for Fornovo and before that Sanguetta, I grabbed the book and began thumbing through the scenarios looking for a suitable and interesting battle to bring to the table. Two other requirements were that I needed a battle that fits my collection size and a contest suitable for four players.After considering the possibilities, I settled upon the 1509 Battle of Agnadello. While Verginella provides simple maps and an Order of Battle, the book is really a toolkit and jumping off point in my mind. For me, there is never enough detail on scenario and victory conditions to formulate a viable scenario without a little (often much) tinkering.
While Agnadello is mentioned in a number of internet searches and included in some of the books in my library, one of the most complete accounts is found in Predonzani and Alberici's The Italian Wars Volume 2. Great book as are all of the titles in this series. Recommended.
I also turned to GMT's Arquebus boardgame for inspiration and information.
After considering the sources and my battlefield and collection constraints, I arrive at the battlefield as illustrated below:
Battlefield |
Army deployments |
As the scenario stands, the Venetians are outnumbered but holding favorable ground. Historically, the Venetians were destroyed in this battle but all is not hopeless. With ditches and vineyards to negotiate, the French will have a difficult time on the approach. Compounding the terrain difficulties, the chance of rain adds to the uncertain nature of the outcome. Perhaps with some luck, the Venetians can effectively run out the clock while remaining on the field of battle?
Like the rain present on the field at Fornovo battle noted above, accounts mention rain on the field at Agnadello too. Accounts vary on the presence of rain. Some accounts state the rain was present when the battle began. Some state the rain began midway through the battle. Some accounts, including the Predonzani book above, never mention it! When rain is mentioned, it poses a serious obstacle in both movement and negotiating the ditch as the ground softens and the ditches fill with mud.
Scenario design is always a bit of a guessing game with a little trial and error thrown into the mix. We will see on Monday if the scenario survives first contact.
Niccolo Machiavelli, in his book The Prince, famously commented on the battle's impact, stating that in one day, the Venetians lost what had taken them 800 years to conquer.
The table top and forces arrayed look spectacular.
ReplyDeleteI do agree that scenario design is a tricky job that often requires a number of compromises to make it resemble the tactical challenges yet also be a good game for all involved.
Glad you approve, Richard! Yes, proper scenario design is as much art as science.
DeleteNice! Will be looking forward to this as your Italian Wars collection is very nice indeed. The Venetians will be up against it but should be interesting to see what they do when battle commences.
ReplyDeleteI look forward to seeing this play out too! Can our latter-day Venetians best their historical counterparts? Stay tuned!
DeleteShould be a good one. From the accounts I've read, the Venetians, given the terrain, have a chance in this one with good handling and a bit of luck, so no walk in the park for the French players.
ReplyDeleteI hope so! Given the way in which I constructed table, armies, and victory conditions, the Venetians ought to have a fair shot at victory. We will see over time if the historical result turns out to be the most likely result on the game table. For the Venetians, not seeing complete annihilation might be a victory in itself!
DeleteImpressive amount of research, Jon, and it has uncovered some interesting details to incorporate, such as the possibility of rain affecting the outcome....will you incorporate that into your scenario?
ReplyDeleteYes, a rainstorm appears part way through the battle affecting movement and artillery fire.
DeleteWell a nice change from the Samurai battles and as always, the Italian Wars offer some of the best eye candy:). You make a good point about scenario design and victory conditions, especially where there is quite a bit of contradictory evidence. Add in the issues of making it 'work' depending upon the rules used and you have a nice challenge for sure!
ReplyDeleteThe Italian Wars are definitely a colorful period to see out on the table. In recreating historical battles, even an army badly mauled in the actual event ought to have some possibility of coming out with some sort of victory even in defeat. Unless a simulation, the weaker and compromised army still must have goals to fight toward.
DeleteThere's an account / scenario for Agnadello based on Italian sources in the Arquebusier:
ReplyDeleteVenetians (left to right)
Third Colonello (Antonio del Pio)
360 Italian mercenary MAA
200 Stradiots / mtd crossbow
3400 Italian militia - pike or crossbow
(All in second line)
800 professional pike under Citolo de Perugia
(In front of militia)
Guns
Fourth Colonella (Bartolomeo d'Alviano)
400 Italian mercenary MAA (2nd line)
First line
500 militia (Saccoccio da Spoleto) in front of:
8-900 professional pike (Piero del Monte)
3000 Italian militia - pike or crossbow (from Padua and Friuli)
French
Left to right
250 Gensdarmes (d'Amboise)
3000 Gascon crossbow
Guns
250 Gensdarmes (Trivulzio) moved to left
Arriving
500 Gensdarmes (Louis XII)
4000 Swiss pike
1600 mounted crossbow
The Venetian First and Second Colonellos (advance guard under Niccolo Orsini Count of Pitigliano) took no part being at Pandino
840 Italian mercenary MAA
2300 Stradiots and mounted crossbow
9200 Italian crossbow and pike including Romagniole at Brisighella
Not clear if MAA /Gensdarmes are number of lances rather than actual numbers.
Neil
Thanks for transcribing the Arquebusier OB, Neil.
DeleteVery helpful! While Verginella's OB does not provide this level of detail, he provides relative composition and strengths of the two armies. Predonzani provides detailed OB information like you rosters provided here. Perhaps comparing the two would be a useful exercise. He uses the original Italian sources too.
Jonathan,
DeleteWhat I've found with almost every Italian Wars battle is there is considerable discrepancies with almost every account, including the primary sources.
Some even have widely different deployments (like Ravenna) and seldom agree on numbers.
The best that can be gleaned is the different national composition of the armies, with a range of numbers for each such as "2-4000 Italians".
While this is true of most history, it seems especially pronounced in the Italian Wars!
Neil
Neil, I saw this in both my earlier studies of Sanguetta and Fornovo in preparation for scenario development. We must always use good judgment in such matters.
DeleteSome good info here (including the rain shower):
Deletehttp://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=149618
Neil
Nice find, Neil! Some good information, therein, including a response from a now, long gone old friend.
DeleteThe scenario has all the makings of some serious tabletop action.
ReplyDeleteI hope to see some serious action on Monday!
DeleteAs always your Italian Wars collection is a joy to behold Jonathan! I also have that warlord scenario book and I was let down by the presentation which was pretty basic and I expected more from Warlord's typical books and the translation wasn't the best either, but I was very happy with the number of scenario's included so overall a thumbs up.
ReplyDeleteChristopher
Thank you, Chris! They would be even better had YOU painted them! My assessment of the scenario book closely matches yours.
DeleteThank you that's very kind, but your collection is lovely indeed and even better your actually playing!
DeleteChristopher
True. At least they make it to the table with some regularity.
DeleteGreat setup Jonathan. Those books look good as well. I'm off to investigate them now.
ReplyDeleteThanks! Report back once you have performed your investigation.
DeleteThis has the look of being an epic encounter. Looking forward to reading the battle reports
ReplyDeleteThanks, Neil! Hopefully, you will not be disappointed.
DeleteThis looks to be a great game Jonathan. Stuart and myself gamed this a few years back and it was a lot of fun.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Oli! I need to revisit your Agnadello battle report!
DeleteA challenging scenario and the massed ranks of your pikemen units always look impressive.
ReplyDeleteMassed pike stands do look intimidating especially when I jab myself on the pike heads!
DeleteWonderful looking table as always Jonathan.
ReplyDeleteI am sure the scenario will be perfect and I am looking forward to the reports (if you get time 😁)
Much appreciated, Ben! No need for a perfect scenario if it produces an enjoyable contest. We will see how it goes tomorrow.
DeleteOh, that's looking great!
ReplyDeleteThanks!
DeleteJonathan, i can only chime in on many different comments, the quality of effort on scenario research and troops presentation is top notch. Looking forward to your AAR'S for this battle. Merry Christmas!
ReplyDeleteMerry Christmas, Joe! Let’s hope the effort produces enjoyable results.
DeleteAnother impressive looking setup Jon 👍
ReplyDeleteThank you, Matt!
DeleteLovely table for this time in year. Italy in the period and the snow and rain is falling outside. I hope to play PML at least after Christmas.
ReplyDeleteI wish you the best. Cheers!
Thank you, Andre! Rain here but no snow.
DeleteLove the Italian Wars and will never tire of seeing it on a tabletop. Those Helion books are very good.
ReplyDeleteThe Italian Wars’ armies are so colorful, who tires of seeing them deployed on the table? Not me, for sure! This Helion series is very good.
DeleteThis looks like a crackin game Jon. The irrigation ditches look pretty formidable defensive positions!! Sounds like you need more troops though Jon. Have you been a good boy this year? Perhaps Santa will bring you some Pike blocks?
ReplyDeleteThanks, Ray! Yes, I may need to increase the Military Budget for 2025. I am always a good boy! Will the pike blocks you send be painted?
DeleteChristmas has come early with an Italian wars game! Think I've had a go at this one , can't remember the outcome, I have another pike block prepped and ready to prime, you can never have too many!
ReplyDeleteBest Iain caveadsum1471
It has! In fact, game time is only 30 minutes away. I may need to follow your lead and bring in more pikemen. I could use more crossbow while I’m at it.
DeleteIt looks like an interesting and challenging scenario. I look forward to seeing this play out.
ReplyDeleteGame #1 produced an interesting contest with a chance, midway, for upsetting history.
DeleteIt certainly looked an interesting scenario - and so it turned out to be! Game no.1 went in directions I never expected, but was great fun, thanks! I look forward to your report, but take your time and enjoy Xmas first..
ReplyDeleteDavid, the battle went in an unexpected direction right off the bat. Given Mark's propensity for aggression, I half expected to see this attack from Carpi with Mark leading that wing. You should have expected it too! Your crossbowmen in the vineyard and Chris' skirmishers in the woods may be awarded MVUs for the game...posthumously, of course.
DeleteLooks great, Jon!
ReplyDeleteWay back in 2009, while our group was running six 1809 games at Historicon, I also ran Agnadello with Band of Brothers 2md edition rules. It was part of a series of five games of Agnadello sponsored by Peter Hess, each with a different rule set, Titled "Agnadello: 500 years of obscurity". That predated the blog by a year and a half, so I have only vague memories, but I am pretty sure the Venetians were trounced as in history! Peter was a great proponent of Renaissance wargaming, and sadly died suddenly less than a year afterwards.
Thanks! Too bad that Peter’s five game series of Agnadello may be lost to history. Sorry to see if his untimely death.
Delete