When is enough enough? Is a project really ever finished? Is there a relationship between collection size and other hobby attributes? For answers to the first two questions, my answer is simply that it is too soon to tell. As for answering the third question, let us see what the survey says.
In preparation for the 2020 Great Wargaming Survey, Jasper asked if there were any questions we would like to add. Well, I had a couple of suggestions. One question focused on collection size. My wish was granted! When I sent the proposed question with bin sizes denoted as,
How many painted figures do you possess in your wargaming collections?
Less than 100 painted figures
101- 500 painted figures
501- 1,000 painted figures
1,001- 2,500 painted figures
2,501- 5,000 painted figures
5,001-10,000 painted figures
10,001-15,000 painted figures
15,001-20,000 painted figures
20,001-25,000 painted figures
25,000+ painted figures
Jasper may have thought my brackets were typographical errors and that I inadvertently added some extra zeros. When the question appeared in the survey, the brackets showed,
For this study, only two attributes will be examined. They are Age Group and Primary Interest. Now, in earlier results, we saw that there is a relationship between age group and primary interest. Younger wargamers tended toward fantasy/sci-fi gaming while older wargamers tended toward historical gaming. As always there is a mix of all age groups in the "Mixed" category of gaming preference. Since many fantasy/sci-fi games require fewer figures than large historical battles, collection size ought to reflect this tendency. Similarly, with older wargamers having a longer time to collect and amass figures than the younger generations, collection size should show increases with age. What do the data suggest?
What do the data show when examining Collection Size by Age Group? To begin Figure 1 illustrates that the 101-500 figure collection size is the most popular. What may be surprising is that collection sizes exceeding 2,500 figures are the second most popular. This result suggests to me that there are a lot of data aggregated within the Over 2,500 bracket. Maybe a reconsideration of collection size bins is appropriate if this question will continue into 2021? Also note that the 31-40 age group makes up the largest component of the 101-500 collection size while 51-60 age group takes the largest share of the Over 2,500 collection size.
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| Figure 1 |
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| Figure 2 |
What if Collection by Primary interest is considered? In Figure 3, again collection size of 101-500 figures is the most popular. While the "Mixed" category of primary interest dominates the 101-500 size collection, Fantasy/Sci-Fi is the second most popular primary interest for this collection size. Historicals shows up as a distant third. Now, consider the Over 2,500 collection size. Historicals dominate with Mixed a close second.
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| Figure 3 |
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| Figure 4 |
Jonathan, a good question posed. It is the age / collection tabulation that particularly catches my interest here. I would suggest that there are two parameters that will skew the basic question of ‘how many figures’.
ReplyDeleteOne of course will tend to have a correlation to age, but it is the number of years that one has put into the collecting thing. Typically an older person has had more years to expand their collection, so perhaps by definition that will be factored into analysis.
Also, the older person will have come from a time when ‘big armies’ were the thing, rather than today’s skirmish based collections, so again the older person would perhaps tend have more figures per collected period.
Wider than that though is figure scale. I could see a 28mm collection having an army of say around 200 figures, while a 10mm collector might have the ‘same sized army’ arrayed with around 1000 figures. I think a previous analysis might have looked at the age / scale correlation, but eyesight must play its part :-)
The investment in cost and painting time is probably broadly equivalent, but obviously the figure count on scale is out by a factor of say x5.
Another interesting dimension, which of course the stats are not designed to take into account and I mention it purely as an aside is that the older gamer will typically have had a longer period to sell off painted collections, particularly the bigger ones, so we can only imagine what might have passed through some gamers hands over their wargaming lifetime in terms of collections.
Finally, one of the constants that I see on blog media etc is that budget is a determining factor on what is collected, I wouldn’t even know where to start to tie that in with age / collection relationship.
Thank you, Norm! You always provide an interesting and thorough feedback to the analysis.
DeleteYou make a number of interesting points but will highlight a few.
1. BIG Armies for the Old Days: This is an interesting observation and a conclusion that draws my attention too. When doing this analysis on collection size, I added in respondent's location into the attributes. Guess which region maintained the largest proportion of figures in the 2,500+ category? UK and Ireland! Is that due to the origins of the hobby or something else?
2. Budget. Since expected annual spend is a question in the survey, I may return to this topic at another time. While spend is only a snapshot in time, perhaps big collections require a continual big spend?
Re 1. I wonder whether that has to do the early network of wargame clubs up and down the country that quickly sprang up and the number a wargame shows that ‘grew up’ around them.
DeleteAlso in those early days, there were a lot of UK manufactures that made buying figures a cheaper prospect than ordering from overseas,
Around the same time, boardgaming via Avalon Hill and SPI were booming in the States, significantly propelled via the university population and I think for some years after, as nations, we have been polarised by our origins in boardgames / figures. Pretty much every boardgame I buy (except Hexasim) is imported from the US.
The UK/Ireland factoid probably shouldn't be a surprise. Look at the number of manufacturers we cram into such a small island.
DeleteBeing an early hub for the hobby is a likely driver for the number of gamers per capita and collection size in the UK. As Graham mentions, the UK has more than its fair share of manufacturers. Given Say's Law, it is not unexpected that supply would drive demand.
DeleteIt is a really interesting observation that miniature manufacturers are centralized to the UK while hex and counter wargames are centered in the USA. Is this some sort of competitive advantage at work?
Graham, the number of manufacturers on the island certainly contributes to collection size but I have been under the (mis)impression that homes were much smaller in the UK than USA and space was at a premium. Clearly, this is another myth busted.
DeleteWe do have smaller homes and less space than the US, generally, we just make the most of it, if needs must. Or we build a massive shed.
DeleteI do see a lot of gaming sheds on display in blogs from your side of the pond.
DeleteIt is a rather difficult question to answer. I consider a figue finished when it is painted varnished based and magnetised. However as I buy mainly second hand painted figures and painted and based is usually good enough to game with.
ReplyDeleteTaking the wider definition I probably have in excess of 15,0000 painted figures and a third as many again not usable in a game with most of them being bare metal with a hint of plastic.
I sell very little so my collection has grown with age but it has deliberately slowed as I try and apply a ' will this get on the table in the next 5 years' rule.
I still find it difficult to resist a bargain when it comes to painted second hand figures but have reduced bare metal purchases to a handful of figures a year.
I sometimes like to support kickstarters but the model count needs to be low and I normally send those to a friend who is a professional painter rather than let them sit in my lead pile.
I think in some sense my purchases reflect my advancing years. I used to buy on the basis that I would eventully get around to using the figures sometime now it is much more about getting use of thm in the next wee while.
Thanks, David! I find it very difficult to resist a sale and my Lead Pile can attest to that. I almost never buy second hand figures, though.
DeleteYou raise a good philosophical question about continuing to collect and paint as our years advance. I realize that I may never have enough time to paint everything I have in storage but it does not stop me from collecting more.
It's an interesting question Jon and I really don't have any idea of the answer fir my own collections. I do feel like I am tending towards smaller collections of more variety but my main constraints are budget and storage space....I do have a looming issue of where I can put more five boxes of figures.....
ReplyDeleteKeith, are you downsizing your collections as time passes or are new projects simply smaller? Storage can become a problem. I have boxes stacked almost to the ceiling in places. Oh, I still have space for your five boxes of figures if you run out of space...
DeleteLol....that was a typo....should read file boxes! If was only five I had to worry about, it probably wouldn't be an issue! No I have no plans to downsize...despite the fact that I have numerous armies that have been CB for years, and some who are gaming virgins! New collections recently have tended to be skirmish scalle, so fewer figures require, although my new venture will see a return to more conventionally organised violence!
DeleteSeems to reflect me perfectly. Older gamer, lots of figures, mainly historical 👍
ReplyDeleteExcellent! Good to hear from you again!
DeleteI have always had large armies typically each would consist of around 4-500 figures and there would be two or three. In the last five years or so I have added several thousand to the collection and although having no inclination to start yet another period I can see me adding quite a bit more to what I have. Yes, age, historicals, along with perhaps a bit of spare cash ensures my continued building.
ReplyDeleteWe are (old) birds of a feather, George! Well, except that I have many more than two or three large armies.
DeleteYep. Another gamer here fitting into the older cohorts (but not yet old enough yet to have had the vaccine 😁) with a large purely historical collection. 7500 but all 6 and 10mm excluding unpainted.
ReplyDeleteTime (30+ years on this collection after disposing of 25mm), and disposable income are the drivers.
You are a Model Miniature Major General, sir!
DeleteI remember that when I answered this question on the survey I didn’t count unpainted miniatures. Those aren’t part of the collection bc they’re not done. It’s raw materials for the collection. 😀
ReplyDeleteI’m a little surprised that fantasy gamers have less figures. While the armies are smaller, the genre tends to have many factions. I would of expected that gamers would have several factions that taken all together would equal historical gamers with the typical 2 larger armies.
That's right. We don't count unpainted figures. The thought of such an exercise makes my knees buckle.
DeleteStew, the piece you are leaving out in your hypothesis is that many historical gamers have many more than two large armies. Well, I speak for myself!
Lol. That’s true.
DeleteBut I was thinking about by genre. I’ll use myself as an example. For the ACW I have 2 ‘large’ armies; Union and CSA. For Lord of the Rings I have Gondor, Fiefdoms, Orcs, Goblins, some Rohan, some Dwarfs. None of which is very big but all together would rival the ACW collection. Maybe. I’d have to count. 😀
I would of guessed that historical gamers would have pairs of large armies but fantasy gamers would have bundles of smaller ones but would be on par with larger ones added up. But the data doesn’t seem to support that so obviously I’m off! 😀
Stew, taking you as an example, you appear to fall into the "Mixed" category since you have both historical and fantasy/sci-fi interests. Pure fantasy/sci-fi gamers tend to have collections under 500 figures whereas pure historical gamers tend to have larger collections. Gamers falling into the Mixed category tend to field all size of collections. Due, in part, to their wide interests.
DeleteYou are not off! You bring up some important points.
I have exactly the same viewpoint as Stew in that I only count the painted figures as part of the collection which is eighteen complete (or substantially completed) armies. I did a count over Christmas and realise I have fifty-one armies in the unpainted pile with the bulk of them between five hundred to one thousand figures each. A quick calculation told me I will have to live another 168 years to see them all completed and, in the realisation that this is unlikely, I have now curtailed any future purchases.
ReplyDeleteLawrence! 51 unpainted armies ready for the brush? That is really impressive! Yes, we only count painted figures for collection size.
DeleteI have gone through a similar exercise for painting the unpainted. My total was NOT 168 years but likely the balance is more years than I have remaining. I often joke with my wife that I need two lifetimes: one to paint and then one game.
I will be watching to see if your purchases slow down. For me, I simply cannot help myself from buying more.
Interesting analysis as always Jonathan. I did a quick back of an envelope type tot up of my painted figures and I reckon I have over 1,000, which was a bit of a surprise (I can't remember what I answered in the survey!). They are mainly 10mm and based in similar fashion, with a few based for skirmish rules. Now if I went down the 6mm route as a rough guide I could easily increase the figure count by 50-100%, yet have the same armies.
ReplyDeleteBroadly speaking I returned to wargaming some 20 years ago, so mid 30's and would only have had some 20-30 28mm figures for Mordheim, as that was all I had the time, money and space for with a young family. As interests moved on, disposable income increased the figure count rapidly expanded, less so the the painted number, but that's true for most of us.
Now in my late 50's I'm downsizing once Covid restrictions lift and it's easier and safer to sell stuff, as I've realised I don't need so many armies that are similar, or my interests have changed etc. I expect when this is done to have maybe 2,000 painted figures (I'm not including AFV's here) which will be ample for my gaming needs and work with the rules I use. Also I tend to not pack my bases with figures, which if I did, would again greatly increase the figure count.
Hi Steve. 1,000 figures is a nice size collection. To me, your gaming approach shows great method and restraint. Sticking to one main figure scale has so many benefits. Unfortunately, I have my hand in many different pots with no resolve to cull the herd. I may have to consider downsizing at some point especially for collections that rarely see the gaming table. to make any progress also means I need to stop picking up new projects. I have two new projects for 2021 already and it is still only February!
DeleteI appreciate for measured approach to the hobby and glad you shared!
figure scale will also have an impact on the number of figures in a collection. While I have 25/28mm fantasy and sci-fi, most of my collection is 6mm. No exact count, but probably over 50,000
ReplyDelete50,000! That is quite a collection, William. My painted figures across all figure sizes is about 30,000. Figure scale does impact the totals, for sure but still, 50,000 is impressive!
DeleteWhen my wife next asks ‘haven’t you got enough already?’ I will point out your comment William. In fact I might print and frame it!
DeleteI will use that too!
DeleteAs a older gamer over 50, and a big battalion Napoleonic player from the old school rule sets of 1/20, I then fell into similar sets for Ancients and Medieval, and ww2.
ReplyDeleteIn consequence my collection falls into above the 5000 figure range, with possibly more than a 1000 still unpainted......
Luckily I have a business that uses a majority of the armies that relate to our "walk the battlefield in the morning, Wargame in the afternoon". I have started to remove armies that do not directly relate to the western region of France in any way, except for a few pet armies that will remain.
If I had my time over I would concentrate on Napoleonic Armies, but then I would want them all....and have a similar sized collection!
My two cents
Cheers
Matt
French Wargame Holidays
Thanks for providing an accounting of your collections, Matt! So, if allowed a "do over" you would concentrate solely on Napoleonics? What would that do to your French Wargames Holidays?
DeleteReally interesting and thoughtful post as always Jonathan. There is so much to discuss I will have to come back to the post. Scale is interesting, I might ask a couple of questions which are our largest collections and which are our smallest that we play with ? Please don’t do a post on the size of our lead pile !😢
ReplyDeletePlease return to discuss when you find the time and inspiration, Matt!
DeleteThe size of the unpainted lead pile is not a question asked on the survey. Something for next year's survey?
Clearly as others have said historical in the main tends to larger forces. Part of the attraction of the collecting element of the hobby for me is I certainly don’t consider any project complete ! As a couple have mentioned there is in my mind ( this may or may not change with age) a gradual desire to always look at the next scale/size of battle AWI being a great example. Start with a brigade and use skirmish type rules, collect more and now we are moving to hopefully larger battles. I think the limiting factor for some genres is when you find you simply have too much stuff, I am kind of there with early war Germans as I have almost too much armour in 28 mm. Of course it comes with a benefit that I can field for bolt action a number of different smaller forces, armour, infantry, recon etc.... the limiting factor for me is storage and the wide range of genres, some like RCW was always planned to stay fairly small with 10 to 12 units a side, not plans to expand it upto really big battles. The AWI needs to reach the stage I can field perhaps 3 or 4 brigades a side plus support ? We’ ll see how things develop and that is for me part of the joy. I don’t plan out what I need, don’t keep lists buy what I fancy 😀
DeleteMatt, you are not alone in finding completed projects a rarity. I have a few that I consider complete but occasionally still add a unit or two.
DeleteGood point on starting small and gaming at a lower level and then having gaming style evolve as collection size increases. I have never followed that approach, though. I almost always begin with grand plans. Like in the days of board wargaming, the campaign scenario would often see the gaming table first!
Ten to twelve units per side is really the sweet spot in gaming but we all enjoy those massive games with dozens of units, don't we?
I look forward to seeing your AWI project take it to the next level with larger battles.
I never like a pure figure count without reference to scale. A 15mm and a 54mm army may be different versions of the same thing, but a 2mm army always and a 5/6mm army usually are collections of bases, not figures. Polls never seem to reflect this.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I am unsurprised by the result. The cliches of teenagers playing fantasy and SF skirmishes while oldsters play huge historical battles are both largely true from my observation. I rather expect the small young collections will grow over time. Even without the seductions of history, new games and armies will appear, people will be reluctant to part with old ones, and most miniatures gamers subscribe to the belief that if two gamers and a dozen figures each is a good game, a dozen gamers with a hundred figures each must be a better one.
Many good games have been spoiled that way.
Thanks for stopping by, Robert!
DeleteOf course, you are correct with the hazards of lumping everything into one basket without having the ability to stratify by figure size. Unless each respondent is asked to quantify collection size by figure size, we must relay upon aggregations. Are these broad generalizations useful? I think they are and the result support our collective perceptions of the hobby.
I honestly do not know many wargamers whom ascribe to your last conclusion. A very enjoyable and interesting game can be produced from any size collection provided with about a dozen BMUs per player.
Must be over 6000 painted, plus a fair bit in 6mm on top of that which doesn't seem fair to count as the equivalent of the 15 and 28mm.
ReplyDeleteI have a 8 metre tall and wide by two foot deep shelving unit which is my main storage area for wargaming figures. About half of that being painted Napoleonics in pretty tight storage (e.g. 12 battalions within a two foot by 1 foot x 6 inch box). My wife said she didn't know I had so many toy soldiers when she met me just over 10 years ago. I replied most of those on that shelf are ones I've got within the last 10 years. So at that speed each decade... well is it wrong I'm considering whether we should get a bigger house - mainly because of the wargaming collection and grand plans for huge battles?! :)
6,000 figures is an impressive collection especially when it is 28mm Napoleonics. If distorting collection by scale is a concern, you can always convert your collection into a Painting Points basis.
DeleteYou may need a bigger house, Mark! For large games, may as well include sleeping quarters for guests too!
Well you already have a pretty good idea where I stand, which fits the generalizations pretty well; older gamer, almost all historical, almost all 25/28 mm, roughly 8,000 Napoleonics comprising 18 armies, 1,000 ECW, 1500 assorted Late Medieval/Renaissance, roughly 2500 Ancients divided among 13 armies, plus assorted 1:1200 Sailing ships, 15 Mmm Galleys, and over 100 Starships. So 13,000 plus at least. By the time I was 21, my collection already was at about 1500, so limited space and funds didn't restrain me much even back then! :-)
ReplyDeleteOh, and unpainted armies most definitely do NOT count!
Yep. I have a VERY GOOD idea where you stand. Peter. We stand not too far apart on most things.
DeleteUnpainted armies DO NOT COUNT!
Not sure where I would fit in the totals category as I have sold off at least 1,500 minis (fully painted) and likely 1000s more unpainted.
ReplyDeleteI can cast my own minis, make my own molds and I am constantly on the lookout for low cost metal to use in casting (found a scrap dealer locally last year so there's a few hundred pounds of metal available).
I have found that as I reach my targets in Napoleonic miniatures, I am seeking to expand to the next size of battlefield (so adding more to the existing painted collection). Now that I have reached my targets for ECW, only small numbers of units remain for the main war years, a contingent of 'possible' French expeditionary forces will add to that - then everything stops for my collection ... though I may do some for sales (just like the Napoleonic ones))
So for 'unpainted metal' - often times if I need it I will melt down cast items (not the purchased ones - others that I have cast) and I have many unpainted forces awaiting decision to include into the current mix.
Storage and regular table action are my two criterion for any expansion of collections. Many great WWII things out there in all sorts of scales ... just not many players here for me to justify the expanding into that realm - I can get the game action out with software and the 6-12 board games I have in that era.
I find that I have become more picky about including anything 'new' and that most of the 'new' has been expansion onto the main era(s) that I already have.
There seems to be agreement that unpainted don’t count in the collection size tally. Painted and then sold figures ought not count in current collection size either although they certainly count toward your lifetime painted figure counts.
DeleteBesides your Napoleonics and ECW collections, what other miniatures projects do you have on the go? One problem I face is that I always seem to find periods of interest to me. I have tough tough time resisting.
Interesting post as always, I didn't really think I had that many painted figures until I realized my Italian wars probably tops 1000 painted 28mm figures and combined with my ECW and WOTR would probably push me over the 2500,this doesn't count the 40k armies in the loft, you don't need as many figures for 40k it's true, as I am hoping 2021 will be the year of Napoleonics in 28mm I can not see any end in sight until my brushes are pulled from my cold,cold hands! Having said that purchases are mostly on hold until I've caught up at least a bit!
ReplyDeleteBest Iain
You never know where you stand unless you take an accounting occasionally. You have some big and beautiful armies, Iain. In next year's survey you will know how to complete this question!
DeleteI am like you in that I will keep painting until I stop.
Well, now I'm gonna have to count my figures! (and see how I stack up among historical gamers in that upper age bracket!).
ReplyDeleteThis is a perfect task for lockdown!
Delete