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Friday, February 23, 2024

Too Much Trasimene?

Perhaps, but I forge on anyway...

Game #5 in this series features a remote game with Peter from Grid based wargaming.  You can read Peter's account of this battle at Battle of Lake Trasimene

Last fall, Peter and I discussed choosing a Punic Wars battle and then refighting the action in a Home and Away series.  Each would use his table, armies, and rules of choice.  The Battle of Lake Trasimene was chosen and Peter was up first.  Using OHW and his D3 adaptation, the battle was fought.  He commanded the Romans while I took the Carthaginians.  My recap of that action can be found at Thoughts on Lake Trasimene.

In Thursday's game (Friday for Peter in Australia), roles were reversed.  Peter played Carthage while I played Rome.  The Rules of Engagement were my adaptation of Basic Impetvs.

Did I manage any better than Peter when he took charge of the Roman Army at Lake Trasimene in his game?  Please read on to find out.

The battle begins as usual with Hannibal holding the initiative on Turn 1.  Rather than the now, familiar charging down from the heights in the first impulse with Marharbal's Gauls and cavalry on the Carthaginian Right, Peter did something quite unexpected.

In the first impulse, Marharbal activates his wing.  Rather than charging ahead toward the Romans strung out along the road below, Marharbal advances up to the tree line and halts.  What?  Surely this gives the advantage to Flaminius.

When Flaminius activates, he moves his legion inland to face the enemy.  What I failed to grasp in the previous games is that reaching the Roman line on T1 is a 50/50 proposition.  While the Gauls may reach the enemy, there is half a chance to stop short, isolated, in disorder.  Ah, Peter is a cagey adversary!   
Marharbal advances to tree line and halts.
Flaminius orders his legion and they march inland.
Thinking this a tactical blunder against Flaminius, Flaminius prepares himself to take the fight to the seemingly, reluctant enemy.

Now, the beauty of Peter's plan begins to unfold.

With the Carthaginians hugging the tree line, Flaminius advances to within charge range.  There is no need for the waiting Gauls to take the 50/50 chance of failing to contact.  The warband on the far left of Marharbal's line screams down from the woods.  The Gauls strike light infantry.  The hastati to the light infantry's left choose not to offer support since defeat might send both units routing into the lake.  The light infantry suffers heavily and is driven back to the lake's edge.  The Gauls pursue.  The lights break and rout into the lake.   
First warband attacks!
Caught in pursuit...
the light infantry perishes into the lake.
The second warband, launches its charge down the hill and into the enemy.  The target is a body of principes to which Flaminius has attached himself.  This time, I opt to support the principes with the hastati to its right.  Letting loose two volleys of pila to no effect, the warband comes on.  In the melee, the warband throws eight dice to Flaminius' nine. Flaminius' dice register no hits.  The warband's dice show five!  In the Cohesion Test, the principes fail and take two hits.  Flaminius has lost the melee and must retreat.  Flaminius and the principes retreat one hex.  Compelled to retreat as well, the hastati retreat two hexes and perish into the lake.  Flush with success, the warband continues to pursue Flaminius.  Flaminius is caught and driven into the lake.  The Roman heavy infantry drown taking Flaminius with them.  The Roman Left Wing has been hollowed out.      
Flaminius attacked!
Roman heavy infantry driven back
 with the hastati going for a swim.
Pursuit continues and Flaminius falls.
Big hole where Flaminius' legions once stood.
Still one more Gallic warband to emerge from the woods.

Out from the cover, the third warband charges down from the hill.   With enemy now on its flank, the hastati has no room to maneuver.  In a protracted clash, the hastati are finally driven back to the lake's edge with the Gauls in hot pursuit.  Making a last stand at the water's edge, the Gauls are repulsed.  Whew! 

By now, a few units from the defile have shifted to return back to the lake.  One of the early arriving units is a body of Roman cavalry.  Struck from behind, the Gauls are ridden down and dispatched.
The Gauls keep coming!
The hastati are driven back to the lake...
and make a defiant Last Stand.
Gauls cut down from behind.
What about the fighting in the defile?  Are the Romans having better luck on that front?

With Carthaginian heavy infantry moving up to seal off the defile, the Romans push forward in an attempt to toss the enemy aside.  In mass clashes of heavy infantry, the fight hangs in the balance.  Finally, one unit of Carthaginian heavy infantry breaks for the rear.  A breach in the line!  Is success here too little too late?  
Clash in the defile...
finally leads to Roman success!
Back at the lake, the Romans continue braving the storm.  

The Gauls at the lakefront attack the retiring hastati.  Like those before, these heavies are driven into the lake.  Now, Marhabal brings his medium cavalry into action.  The lone principes is attacked and driven back.  The cavalry come on in pursuit overrunning a band of velites.  The retreat turns into rout as the principes are driven off the table with the cavalry in hot pursuit.  The Roman Left is no more!
Hastati driven into the lake!
Principes retreat from enemy cavalry.
Velites are overrun...
and principes rout off table.
With the Roman Left in tatters and army morale wavering, it comes down to the triarii to hold on until the defile can be secured.
Fighting continues in defile.
Standing alone, the triarii look on as Hannibal comes forward with his heavy infantry.  The heavy block attacks with Hannibal at the lead.  Hannibal is repulsed but casualties are high.  As Hannibal draws away, his place is filled by Spanish scutarii.  Weakened from their earlier exertions, the triarii's resolve gives away.  Rome's last hope routs into the lake.

This battle is over.   
Battle comes down to the triarii.
Hannibal attacks but is repulsed!
Scutarii attack...
and the triarii rout!
Wow!

I really got my headed handed to me on a platter in this contest.  How bad was it?  Take a look at the Dead Pile below.  It was not even close.  Peter took me apart at every opportunity leaving the battlefield denuded of Romans.  The Gallic warbands tore open the Roman line and never let up.  In two turns (we played three complete turns), the Roman Left and Flaminius were no more.

Impressive victory, Peter, and very well played.  I thought your hesitancy at the start was an opportunity for Flaminius but it turned into a slaughter.  Great job!
Dead Pile
We completed three turns in under two hours.  The result was another outcome that mirrored the historical account.

One more replay coming up on Monday in a rematch with Postie's Rejects.  Thank God I am umpiring only.  My heart cannot take much more of this stress.

Again, great job, Peter, in what was a very enjoyable beat down.

62 comments:

  1. Can you ever have enough of the Second Punic War?

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  2. Great to see how different players approach this battle. Peter's use of the Gallic warbands proved very decisive

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  3. Very cunning plan by Peter! I am in awe. Worthy of Hannibal himself.

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  4. Oh gawd. This will perhaps make Richard and Steve feel a little better after their defeat on Monday. It does sound like you and Richard maybe dice buddies though?

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    1. Yes, I did feel like I was channeling Richard’s dice throwing abilities. Nine dice and no hits? And, it happened more than once. My pila were worthless and those cagey Carthaginians quite nimble.

      Richard and Steve can take solace in my defeat.

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    2. LOL. Are you suggesting that I'm some sort of dicing virus Jonathan?

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  5. Nice change of tactics from Peter. I notice you didn’t double up your units along the lakeside even through he gave you a bit of a breathing space. Would it have made them more résiliant if you had?

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    1. I did not form up into large units because I figured I need to cover the ground and did not want to expose flanks to enemy cavalry. Would it have helped? I am not so sure! On a retreat, two stands would have been heading toward the lake rather than one.

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  6. Too much Trasimene? I'd say it is getting more interesting each time Jonathan! Each battle is different. I wonder if Peter's tactics replicated Hannibal's and/or whether the Rules correctly interpret their tactics, insofar as we can know. Roll on (sic) Number six.

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    1. Thank you, Andrew! Good to see that not everyone is tiring of these battles. I think they are interesting too. As you note, each is different with different tactics being tried.

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  7. "Down to the Triari," an ominous phrase, indeed, for any Roman player.

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    1. Ominous phrase, indeed! I literally was down to the triarii.

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  8. That was a great game and I suspect (through no evidence whatsoever) may well be how Hannibal actually fought the original battle...cunningly drawing the Roman's forward into his kill zone seems his kind of thing! The dead pile really was very one sided....sorry to rub it in, Jon!

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    1. Glad you enjoyed the debacle, Keith! Peter’s tactics worked brilliantly and I fell for the ruse completely.

      The Dead Pile is really quite astounding, isn’t it?

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  9. Another quick game which, as you say, mirrors the speed in which the real battle was decided. What is the tally so far? Was Vol's the only Roman win to date?

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    1. Quick resolution without doubt. Usually my games with Peter are three to four hours. I think he was shocked that we were finished in two hours.

      The tally is Hannibal 4; Flaminius 1. Yes, Vol has the only Roman victory.

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  10. Nice report. You have captured a number of details from the game I had forgotten about. The 3 Gaul units certainly setup this win with their charge and their excellent dice rolls with many 6’s. It is also very nice to see the close up photos of your armies. Appreciating well painted armies is one aspect remote gaming does not easily provide.

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    1. Thanks! Hopefully the details recounted actually were remembered correctly. Your warbands were killers. I can set up my phone for close ups or bring the webcam closer but then the battlefield overview will be lost. I can always zoom in if you want to see a close up.

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  11. Great report Jonathan and no such thing as too much Trasimene!
    Interesting play by Peter but it seems the die rolls had an impact. What would happen if both players got average die rolls? Would Peter's strategy still be as effective?

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    1. Ben, thank you for your encouragement and not tiring of Trasimene yet.

      On average die rolls, while melees may be longer and with Romans winning a more even percentage, Peter’s strategy is still viable. With the Romans still within two hexes of the lake, a two-hex retreat still puts the Romans into the water. Of course, hitting without being hit is an undeniable advantage but those rolls can’t last forever, can they? I sure hope not!

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  12. Wow. I begin to wonder how Flamininus managed to win an early game. Does the Roman player have any choice as to how they allocate troops - could they opt to stiffen the line by the lake with some Triarii - or would it not make any difference?

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    1. How did Flaminius win the earlier game? Well, the player was facing ME as Hannibal!

      Troop types and dispositions are given by the scenario and line of march. No alteration possible. Flaminius lives with his rash decisions.

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    2. Sink or Swim may be the only meaningful decision Flaminius makes this day.

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  13. You can have to much of a good thing, this string of games says not. Another splendid outing, Peter was as cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford 🙂

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    1. Thanks, Phil! Based upon pageviews, I reckon I lose a few readers with each successive iteration of the battle. Peter is a cunning adversary, no doubt!

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  14. Despite another comprehensive defeat, I feel that there is still some knowledge to be gained, as shown by Peter's excellent tactics. Whilst we will never know how the battle unfolded with any certainty, these games show us that even though the Romans could win, Hannibal et al chose the battleground with great care and timing to launch an attack, leading to victory.

    I wonder if the Romans could have deployed differently, with skirmishers or cavalry protecting the left flank to cover the woods, assuming that this was a Roman tactic for that period?

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    1. I learn something new with each playing of the scenario. Of course, by now, I am intimately familiar with the battle. Casual readers may not pick up on some of these nuances without careful study.

      Yes, in this scenario, a Roman victory is possible as we have seen in one of the five games. In another two of those games, the outcome of battle could have easily tipped toward Flaminius in two very close contests.

      could the Romans have deployed more optimally? Of course, but Flaminius was a bit of a hothead and was not a competent general. Brashness and hubris overcame all and he threw prudence to the wind.

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  15. Like Ed I recognised " Down to the Triari " as being slightly worrying! Livy would no doubt say bad weather intervened, he was always trying to spin bad results gor Rome, still at least it looked great!
    Best Iain caveadsum1471

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    1. Coming down to the triarii suggests desperation, for sure. There is debate whether the references to a mist obscuring the enemy was Roman propaganda to minimize the extent of this embarrassing disaster. What do you think?

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    2. Ona number of occasions Livy suggested bad weather stopped play when in fact other sources indicated Rome lost, especially early in the Republic so I would say Roman spin! Happy to see another game, they're all different even if they start out the same, Vols being the most extreme?!
      Best Iain caveadsum1471

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  16. Certainly this breathtaking account proves there is still plenty of life and interest in this series. And the posts you've received seem unanimous in that regards.
    There's a temptation in reading about Hannibal's gauls that they were there just to make up the numbers and tire the Romans but here they prove their worth as battle winners.
    Wasn't it Napoleon who said, "Never interrupt the enemy when he is making a mistake." Well on this occasion, it wasn't a mistake but a tactic.
    Looking forward to more.
    Stephen

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    1. You are most kind, Stephen! In this game, the Gauls were very effective and my Romans let me down...repeatedly.

      Peter's ploy worked brilliantly to throw me off his true intentions. Clever fellow.

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  17. In the foggy conditions under which the battle was fought, would the Romans even have been aware that the enemy had moved into the tree line?

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    1. For the scenario, I limit the extent of the mist and ambush to the turn following Flaminius' first activation.

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    2. I suppose that in the event of the real Hannibal playing Peter’s ploy, he would have done something to attract the Romans to draw them on to him. LZ X-Ray or Little Big Horn Style.
      Chris/Nundanket

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  18. Always interesting put yourself in front of another player and see things open in a totally different way. I quite enjoy some of my boardgames solo, but wonder how many of those sessions are pre-determined by a fixed mindset on how the game should play out. We generally run a game solo before putting the game under the rigours of the face-to-face meet-up and once we play it is often said ‘oh, I didn't think of that’. I think one can be pushed down a certain path when thinking only of victory conditions.

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    1. Having repeated trials (playing the same game/scenario) with an assortment of players opens up possibilities on the gaming table. Playing the same opponent, we pick up player tendencies and may fall into a mindset as you describe. Without shaking it up, we can miss out on growth and discovery. I know I have learned much over the five playings of this Trasimene scenario. I wager players have too.

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  19. I am agreeing with Andrew, I feel these Lake Trasimene games are getting more interesting with each round. And you can nevere ever play too many Punic Wars scenarios, repeated or not! Peter played an effective strategy in this decisve Carthaginian win, reflective of the actual battle IMO. Although, historically, some Romans were able to break through the defile and escape. How many more after Monday's Reject rematch game are you planning? I'm still hoping for a rematch before you reset the table.

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    1. The battles and tactics do seem to be evolving with each passing game. If only we could get more "average" die rolling. Still, each game is quite exciting with much drama.

      I have Monday's Reject planned but after that I figured I would pack it in and move on to another topic. Based upon your manhandling of my Carthaginians with your Romans in our game, I did not expect much of an entertaining game if we switched sides. Flaminius' entire wing might be in the lake on T1! Of course, if you want to humiliate me again, we can put it on the schedule...

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  20. Hmmm, I don't recall any humiliation. Ours was an extremely close game. As I recall. You were ahead in points for most of the game. It was the last turn where we evened up and a lucky roll put me in the win. But if you're tired of Traseme, I understand. What's next for the table?

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    1. Was it that close? There have been a lot of Trasimenes under the bridge.. Right now, I hold the ONLY Carthaginian loss. That is not so good.

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  21. Too much Triasimine? "More is better than less " as a friend used to say.

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  22. Great stuff, and yet another variation from this constantly surprising scenario! I admire Peter's iron nerves, keeping those warbands back - I never thought of that.
    I met Postie's Rejects at a hobby show here today, and we had a good ol' chat about this game, ahead of their re-match tomorrow!

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    1. Glad you enjoyed the battle recap! all of the battles have been different but with some general findings too. Not attacking on T1 when the Romans are disadvantaged by ambush surprised me too. It worked out quit well for Peter.

      Outstanding that you met up with the Rejects. Doubly good to see this battle as a topic of conversation and a possible ice breaker.

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  23. Well one can never have enough Punic Wars and Impetus so keep them coming! Looks great of course!

    Christopher

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    1. Good! I really enjoy Impetvs but not everyone agrees, I know.

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  24. Poor Romans! I see the benefit from playing the same battle again if you can leave the miniatures on the table. We are always playing in the living-room and I have to remove the figures and buildings etc. soon. But we bought a large and very massive table which is perfect for gaming.
    Your battles are always interesting and it's exciting to read and look how different they are played.

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    1. Poor Romans, indeed! I am happy you enjoy the repeated battle reports of the same battle. Trasimene is on table for one more game later today.

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  25. Now you’re posting so fast I can’t keep up….

    Well, I’d say as long as players want to play and you want to host / play yourself then there’s really no limit to the number of times.

    Though I’d imagine that by now the winning strategy is starting to become apparent to everyone.
    It appears that the winning strategy for the Romans is to have you lead the Carthaginians. 😀😝😝😝( I kid).

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    1. I better cut back a bit, then…

      Very funny. Yes, the winning strategy for Rome is to have me command the Carthaginian Army. Most of the games have really been quite close and were decided by the last few points grabbed.

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  26. The way these games are going… There is certainly no such thing as too much Trasimene…
    Splendid stuff indeed Jonathan

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    1. Good to see you are not tiring of Trasimene yet. One more battle yet to recount.

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